Iraq POWS

[Listed M.I.A]

Lots of you probably know that I'm against this war we got into and I think its a mess so i dont need to make a point right now about it. My main concern about this POW scandal is that during Vietnam (another unjustified war) everybody was so gung ho and supported the troops and once people figured out the terribble things our troops did there everyone turned there head and spit on them when they came back.this war is wrong but I dont want the same thing to happen to these guys they are vets and should be treated with respect. and every day if you go to news there talking about new POW abuse and looking back on it and not letting it go. you guys know they just eat that crap up and love it right? also why are we acting so shocked and suprised? this is war and there trained to be killers what do we expect them to do? I dont understand how a soldier can shoot 5 Iraqies on a raid and made into a hero, but these guys are war criminals.America feels guilty about it because we know there in poverty and we know we killed many of them...Well shoot you but after your shot we will give you the best medical care you can get....well capture you but once we do we will give you excellent living conditions, we feel guilty about it.\\

[evillama]

i can't believe im saying it, but i think i agree with you. i also think that the media is way overplaying the whole thing. it isn't torture, its humiliation and theres a big difference that the media keeps trying to blur. i think the reason the media is doing this, is so that they can turn this into another vietnam. if youve noticed, almost every station has made some kind of comparison to vietnam even though it is nowhere near the same.

[UBSwissCheesedUp]

the media is always overplaying things that get people to watch their programs, buy their magazines, in general make them money, remember the school shootings and how the media did not stop talking about them for 3 months? it was crazy!

but the main thing here is that our troops are supposed to be freeing a country from the tyrrany of Saddam Hussein, who was known for torturing and humiliating his subjects...we are doing the exact same thing here as Saddam would have! It is a completely un-American thing that has happened, and it is very embarrasing for our country:(

[Listed M.I.A]

No you can't Justify what the troops did, it was a really bad thing to do I think a couple of pows even died.But my main point is that we shouldnt spit on all the troops when they come home for all this. After seeing there comrades die and sitting in the hot tense desert for a long time thats the last thing they need. the whole "liberal media" thing is just a myth, at least for the 24/7 news networks. CNN is barely to the right but bassicly fair and FOXNEWS is....well if you can't see it your being way to partisan.They just play these things over and over because america has the attention span of a cow and we go through our "phases" these things have to be milked as much as possibble to get people to watch. they will barely be talking about it in 1 month and move on to the next big thing i.e. i havent heard anything about martha stewart for the past 2 or 3 months.

cool pic Swiss but Zoidberg is funnier

[evillama]

i think i might have been misunderstood. i wasnt trying to make excuses for the the soldiers, they defenitely should not have done any of those things. i was just trying to say how the media overplays everything. on that note, their is absolutley no comparison between these soldiers and saddam. his form of humiliation would have been to remove their limbs while they were still alive and then drag them through the streets. and im not sure where you heard that some of the pows died but i haven't heard that at all and ive been paying pretty close attention.

as far as the bias of the media, i can tell that fox leans more to the right then the others but in my opinion all the others have more of a lean to the left. i have nothing to support this so tear it appart as you will, its just the feeling that i get from watching them.

[[PDM] stiltz]

I haven't read everyones posts (I'm a bit lazy today) however here is my two pence worth...

While the inhumane treatment of the Iraqi POW may be uncalled for in the eyes of the world. I think the person who should be taken out back and beat are the people taking these pictures. If our troops where held in a POW camp there would be inhumane treatment given to them as well. The only difference between their POW camps and ours is that they don't take pictures of what goes on.

We don't neccassarily know what these POW did to make the American soldiers do what they did. For all we know they pissed on our soldiers. I'd put that bastid on a leash too.

yeah... thats all I have to say for right now as I have to get ready for work...
oh yeah... one more thing. Liberal news media is horrible. I'm not saying the right winged news (ie:Foxnews) is any better but its not geared 100% to promote its side vs. what the other side is saying.
(^ that may not make sense... but it did in my head when I wrote it)

[evillama]

personally stiltz, i agree with you. i thnk we should give them exactly what they gave us, pain and torture. but when you think personally, i.e. with your emotions, you make poor decisions. thats why when i think politically, or logically, i think its a bad move both in the nations eyes as well as the international community's eyes. normally i couldn't care less about what the world thinks, i believe we need to make decisions based on the good of our country not what some french politician wants for us. but in this case i think we do need to show the world that we are there to help bring about peace to that country. we already have the terrorists against us, we dont need the rest of the world against us as well.

[[PDM] stiltz]

perhaps what the world needs to see about America is that we can't always please all the people all the time.

Here is my last word before I head off to work. I totally with Listed in one respect to what I have read of his post. That is:
That when our troops come home people must treat them with the respect that they deserve. 99.9% of the troops are doing what our countrys leaders ask of them. The other few who are less deserving of our respect, but still deserving for choosing to serve our country, are the ones who are being shown on the media over and over again doing things that are inhumane. Yes, shame on them. Yes they should be punished or less than honorably discharged. But spat upon or shunned by the American public for whom they served (whether the public agreed with it or not) is just wrong and more shameful to the person commiting that offense against the soldier (currently enlisted or not).

off to work I go.

-StIlTz

[evillama]

very well put stiltz, i couldn't agree more.

[UBSwissCheesedUp]

definitely Stiltz, we dont want them to come back unappreciated, like the soldiers that came back from Vietnam, it is a terrible way to treat people who put their necks out for our country...

but im a liberal and against the war...i don tknow if that was ovbious in the first post or not, the journalists are doing their jobs, to take pictures of the war an dshow what happens, all the pictures were taken by the soldiers who did this, the media just feeds it to us way too much...

Fox News has destroyed my father's mind...lol...hes such a die-hard conservative now

[UBSwissCheesedUp]

oh and by the way Listed...Zoidberg is a complete loser, and the only reason he is funny is because no one has respect for him...Bender on the other hand, is a badass who steals, drinks, smokes, and has a generally good time all the time:D

[[PDM] Ammofodder]

Everyone who stands against the troops should be punished/killed. We are removing their worthless government and placing (hopefully) a government of more worth in place. Since we are doing that, all infidels and people who stand against the troops or don't follow the orders they give, should be taken into custody and either killed or given many reasons why they shouldn't stand against us. I know that may have sounded primitive and/or mean, but truly- if we eliminate all of those who stand/sit/crawl/hide or lie to us, then less people will shoot and kill our troops.

-Tony.

[chuff chuff]

but then wed be the only people left hmmm master race thing sounds firmilar maybe hitler kill ne thing thats stands in our way is kinda harsh...i completly support our troops but the whole lets kill all of them mumbo jumbo is retarded imho

[[PDM] Ammofodder]

No, I don't want a master race but I don't like how Iraqis cry and whine about they want to be free and independent NOW but won't let us take care of what we need to in order to make that happen... If we just came in there and strong armed them and silenced them from complaining, we wouldn't have to take care of all of these human rights complaints... I would say the troops are doing the best that they can and that this is considered a war of sorts and things like these happen. If anyone thinks less of the troops because of it, they should end themselves... I know that sounds kinda blunt and such, but if the troops could just go in and take care of business and the media wasn't allowed to tamper with the things they are doing, all would be better...

[Listed M.I.A]

To your first message Stiltz We do know what those soldiers were doing and the POWS were nabbed off the street I dont know if they were insurgents or just plain Iraqies but this was a coordinated interagation done by America and Brittan trying to get information because they were tired of seeing eachother get picked off. So it was to find out whatever information they could. I think they need all the information they can get and if those pows were insurgents than I dont care about what happend to them because there trying to kill our troops anyway.But if they are just regular people then it should not have been done the way it was.Saddams regime did way worse but I dont like the idea of torture anyway (again I have no remorse for them if they were trying to kill our troops) America should just let go when they come back and keep there mouths shut when talking to our soldiers about this abuse crap because you know the Arab world won't

[Listed M.I.A]

Zoidberg is funny cuz he gets no respect and his "Curly" antics are hilarious too. Im not saying Bender isnt funny but he's just like Bart from the Simpsons you know the character everyone likes. in order the 3 funniest are Zoidberg,Fry,Bender end of story.

[UBSwissCheesedUp]

Listed i wholeheartedly disagree...Bender is by far the funniest, then Fry, and then the Professor....Zoidberg is not funny!!!

i deny your right to say it and i defend my right to deny to the death:p

[evillama]

im gonna have to go with mia on this one, zoidberg, fry, then bender. they're all very close though. but family guy takes futurama hands down!

[UBSwissCheesedUp]

yeah i think thats one thing we can agree on...


family guy=greatest show ever

[Kplu]

What the troops did or didn't do, we don't have a clue. We only know what the media blows way out of proportion for ratings. (sweeps this month, so the media is gonna be worse than normal) As far as mistreating the POW's goes its understandable, and unavoidable but not nessacarily good. We don't know exactly whats happened but im certain our prisoners arent getting the best of treatment. These soldiers have gone to do what they were told to do by an administration that doesn't understand the value of a life. They will blow off some steam on those they see responsible. Their superrior officers wouldn't be at fault to them because assaulting an officer could result in the firing line. (however unlikely, the media would be all over that in a seccond) so they go for what they can. As far as my personal stance on this war goes, I don't believe in the cause, but I believe in duty.
The 42nd infantry Rainbow Division (based about 2 miles from here) left for Iraq this week, and I know not all of them will return. They didn't want to go because the point of the war and the polotics of the situation are rediclious, but they also didn't complain because its their duty. Anyway, about the POW's, they can count themselves lucky. Watch the POW treatment footage from the vietnam war. Full bloody color of american troops executing a young vietnamieese boy. (He may have been an enemy, but sure wasn't any soldier) He was bloody, puffy and bruised. Bound and in pain. When I first saw it happen I didn't feel anything. The american trooper put his sidearm to the captives temple and pulled the trigger. Then once the boy hit the ground, his brain matter proceeding him and his wound squirting like a fountain I realized this: this was no hollywood special effects. For the first time in my life I have just actually seen a human being leave this world of life. It made me cry then, and it still makes me shudder now.